Curse

quickmonty · Jan 24, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Will the day ever come when the "it's overpowered" complaints end? Yes. When we finally have no armor, weapons or skills.

Nerf this and the "usual suspects" will line up complaining about the next overpowered skill/weapon/artifact/whatever.

Please ....... make it stop!!!

JR · Jan 24, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Will the day ever come when the "it's overpowered" complaints end? Yes. When we finally have no armor, weapons or skills.

Nerf this and the "usual suspects" will line up complaining about the next overpowered skill/weapon/artifact/whatever.

Please ....... make it stop!!!

Should we also bring back the dual smite, spirit spam, energy denial and dustway (lol) FoTMs? Or did you really enjoy how insanely boring and frustrating they were?

Games have balance issues that need addressing, just because it may not effect YOU directly, does not mean it doesn't effect anyone else.

quickmonty · Jan 24, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Should we also bring back the dual smite, spirit spam, energy denial and dustway (lol) FoTMs? Or did you really enjoy how insanely boring and frustrating they were?

Games have balance issues that need addressing, just because it may not effect YOU directly, does not mean it doesn't effect anyone else.

No more boring than everyone being equal. Balance=equality=no challenge except who hits the buttons the fastest.

JR · Jan 24, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

No more boring than everyone being equal. Balance=equality=no challenge except who hits the buttons the fastest.

This post proves how worthless your opinion on the matter is. You don't like balance because it takes skill out of the game? Next time there there is a major sporting event on how about one team goes out blindfolded, wouldn't that be great?

If you think being succesfull in a balanced PvP environment comes down to "who hits the buttons fastest", your experience of PvP must be limited to the point of non-existant.

Fatty Fatty Boomballati · Jan 24, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Will the day ever come when the "it's overpowered" complaints end? Yes. When we finally have no armor, weapons or skills.

Nerf this and the "usual suspects" will line up complaining about the next overpowered skill/weapon/artifact/whatever.

Please ....... make it stop!!!

But then we will have to nerf the monsters so we can punch Willa the Unpleasent to death.

P.S. good point

Farin · Jan 24, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

No more boring than everyone being equal. Balance=equality=no challenge except who hits the buttons the fastest.

Wow... Are you talking PvP here? Are you sure? Yes, balance is equality, but equality doesn't mean no challenge at all. Balance means chance for everyone to be just as good. You're talking Diablo II here, you want unbalanced stuff so you can have a "challenge". If not, please explain your reasoning behind Balance being equal to no challenge because I don't get it.

Edit- Added Quote.

Fatty Fatty Boomballati · Jan 24, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

This post proves how worthless your opinion on the matter is. You don't like balance because it takes skill out of the game? Next time there there is a major sporting event on how about one team goes out blindfolded, wouldn't that be great?

If you think being succesfull in a balanced PvP environment comes down to "who hits the buttons fastest", your experience of PvP must be limited to the point of non-existant.

Um... I don't think judging by what you said, that you are allowed to call his opinion worthless. But, as you have said it so shall I, Your opinion is worthless.

quickmonty · Jan 24, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Someone made an analogy to football, so let's use that as an example. Two teams of clones, perfectly balanced. Who wins? Last team to have the ball. Now that is exciting.

And .... my opinion my be worthless to you, JR, but I value your and everyone elses' opinion.

Akathrielah · Jan 24, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

Would you rather everyone in the game had the same equipment?

If it is in within bounds of balance, yes. That is what PvP in this game is supposed to be a level playing field for all participants where skills is the determining factor, not because you have uber sword y or l33t armor x.
This helm goes against this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

I personally like the variety. And im not saying this because i have a warrior, because I don't. I even have a mesmer. I just make sure to bring Warstel's Worry along and everything will be fine. If you cant have warstels bring distortion and attack the casters.

So you much rather pigeonhole mesmers into a single skill set

JR · Jan 24, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Someone made an analogy to football, so let's use that as an example. Two teams of clones, perfectly balanced. Who wins? Last team to have the ball. Now that is exciting.

And .... my opinion my be worthless to you, JR, but I value your and everyone elses' opinion.

Apologies if I sounded overly harsh.

The amount of strategy and tactics involved in a high level guild battle can be pretty mind blowing for new player. When it comes right down to it, that is a far bigger factor in your success than build. So even were you to pit two identically kitted out teams against each other, in most cases there would still be a decisive victory from one or the other. Saying it comes down to who hits the buttons fastest is, to be blunt, stupid.

In your analogy you have said both teams were cloned, implying equal skill. I am merely talking about equal equipment. Were your favoured football team to be playing another good team, would you not want to see that the equipment they were using gave no team a disadvantage so it was a fair game?

So you might say... if this is the case, why is the Henge helm important? Well because even despite this, it is STILL a very strong factor in pvp. And that is why it needs changing.

Fatty Fatty Boomballati · Jan 24, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Lets try and be impartail here.

PROS
1. Balances out the PvP arenas for the PvE people
2. Easy to find easy to get.
3. Can be countered with Warstels worry fairly easily.
4. Makes it so mesmers can't solo warriors considering theyre the only melee class it is pretty bad if the squishiest back fielder can kill him.
5. It does not have perfect armor
CONS
1. Helm kills the curse Necromancers against warriors
2. Can not be gotten by PvP People
3.It is equipment not a skill.
4. Only warriors can use it.

I tried to be impartial so if you feel the need to flame this post rember it is for and against your views.

Akathrielah · Jan 24, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Someone made an analogy to football, so let's use that as an example. Two teams of clones, perfectly balanced. Who wins? Last team to have the ball. Now that is exciting.

And .... my opinion my be worthless to you, JR, but I value your and everyone elses' opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirlin.net

A multiplayer game is balanced if a reasonably large number of options available to the player are viable—especially, but not limited to, during high-level play by expert players.

That is what is meant by balance. Not this garbage that people keep spouting out. Balanced != perfect equality. Get it through your heads.

Akathrielah · Jan 24, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

Lets try and be impartail here.

PROS
1. Balances out the PvP arenas for the PvE people
2. Easy to find easy to get.
3. Can be countered with Warstels worry fairly easily.
4. Makes it so mesmers can't solo warriors considering theyre the only melee class it is pretty bad if the squishiest back fielder can kill him.
5. It does not have perfect armor

1.How does this balance out PvP arenas for PvE people? By giving them an unfair advantage?
2.And? In order to make a PvP worthy warrior you still have a long way to go besides obtaining this helm. As Savio pointed out before, the amount and time needed to make a PvP worthy warrior from PvE is substantial.
3. So you want to confine all mesmers to a single skillset? Plus the warrior can always switch back to the other helms he has in his inventory
4. "Soloing" isn't relevant in a team game, sorry.
5. Not relevant

wolfy3455 · Jan 24, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Someone made an analogy to football, so let's use that as an example. Two teams of clones, perfectly balanced. Who wins? Last team to have the ball. Now that is exciting.

And .... my opinion my be worthless to you, JR, but I value your and everyone elses' opinion.

Your analogy has a major flaw in it. It would be accurate if say, you cloned iQ and made them face themselves using the exact same build. When we start asking to nerf Ensign, then you can bust out this analogy.

Balance is putting the two teams on a level playing field from the beginning. In football, the team that trains harder will have an advantage. In football (american or otherwise), there isn't any advantage one team can have outside of the players themselves. If your favorite team's goals/tds counted for less than the other teams, you would be rather pissed off.

The denravi helm needs to be nerfed to maintain the level playing field. Think of skills as plays. If your team was using zone defense to counter their complex routes, and the other team could drink something before the game that made this half as effective, without even having to run a counter-play, you would be rather annoyed.

It is the same way with the Denravi helm. A person doesn't need to waste any slots to cut your effectiveness in half.

JR · Jan 24, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

Lets try and be impartail here.

PROS
1. Balances out the PvP arenas for the PvE people

Having this helm in the game does in no way balance the game in any way. That is an utterly ridiculous argument. The issue with this helm has NOTHING to do with PvP vs PvE, I really really with people would start to understand this. Thats like saying I wish they hadn't nerfed Ether Renwal smite because it worked in PvE.

And "PvP players" create PvE characters aswell, JUST to get this helm. It is in NO WAY a "PvE player" only item.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

2. Easy to find easy to get.

That in no way detracts or adds to the issue of balance, mute point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

3. Can be countered with Warstels worry fairly easily.

Requires you to bring a mesmer with Wastrels Worry if you ever want to run a viable hex build. Which is just silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

4. Makes it so mesmers can't solo warriors considering theyre the only melee class it is pretty bad if the squishiest back fielder can kill him.

Guild Wars PvP has NOTHING to do with soloing ANYONE. With the slim exception of flag runners, it is another completely mute point. Guild Wars is designed for TEAM play. Doing rock/paper/scissors with classes is just stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

5. It does not have perfect armor

With the amount that the head area of the body is hit, that is a trivial point. Not to mention you would only actually equip the helm against teams that were fairly hex heavy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

CONS
1. Helm kills the curse Necromancers against warriors

And any mesmer that doesn't bring Wastrels Worry? Illusion mesmers for example? Or Water Magic based hexes? The fact that the helmet makes you immune to the effects of Lightning Surge and Incendary Bonds? There are far far more hexes than just those in the Necro Curse line, and Mesmer Domination line. This helmet at a quick count has an effect on 15 Elementalist hexes, 24 Necromancer hexes, 25 Mesmer hexes, 2 monk hexes... Maybe more I have missed, although admittedly a fair few won't be that effective on warriors. So to counter this your build HAS to have a mesmer specced in domination with wastrels worry. Because of a helmet. =/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

2. Can not be gotten by PvP People

Apart from, as I said before, the hundreds of PvP people who made PvE characters to get the helmet. This issue has NOTHING to do with where or who the helmet is available to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

3.It is equipment not a skill.

Which is an advantage, because you can change it in and out whenever you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

I tried to be impartial so if you feel the need to flame this post rember it is for and against your views.

That might be the case, but most of your points are still... pointless.

quickmonty · Jan 24, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

One last go at this.

What is the last profession that is usually targeted in PvP and why. I know some will disagree but it's usually the warrior that gets targeted last and the reason is he is the least threat. There are so many ways to counter and nullify a warrior. So let the poor guy give up an attribute point in order to survive a little longer against hexes.

If there were teams of warriors with these helms owning tombs, then I would say it should be looked at. Maybe I'm out of the loop but I just haven't heard of this happening.

And please ..... all ..... stop flaming others just because they don't agree with you.

viper008 · Jan 24, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raxxman

simply cause warriors have no hex defense, and taking the helm

A: makes you more vunlerable to attacks as its armour is 40 points lowerer than say the glads helm vs physical when being clobbered in the head.

B: makes you sacrifice a +1 to stat reducing your dammage output/stance duration, etc etc.

C: It makes skills like parasitic bond and warstrels worry twice as effective

Enough said right here

Tigris Of Gaul · Jan 24, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Someone made an analogy to football, so let's use that as an example. Two teams of clones, perfectly balanced. Who wins? Last team to have the ball. Now that is exciting.

Balance doesn't grant people equal skills. It gives teams an equal platform to rise up on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

No more boring than everyone being equal. Balance=equality=no challenge except who hits the buttons the fastest.

Guild Wars Guru has hit a new low.

wolfy3455 · Jan 24, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

One last go at this.

What is the last profession that is usually targeted in PvP and why. I know some will disagree but it's usually the warrior that gets targeted last and the reason is he is the least threat. There are so many ways to counter and nullify a warrior. So let the poor guy give up an attribute point in order to survive a little longer against hexes.

If there were teams of warriors with these helms owning tombs, then I would say it should be looked at. Maybe I'm out of the loop but I just haven't heard of this happening.

And please ..... all ..... stop flaming others just because they don't agree with you.

Well, apparently you are out of the loop. There are teams with warriors with these helms owning GvG, which is a wee bit more important than tombs.

A warrior is never the least threat. He has the highest DPS of any class currently available. The reason they're targeted last is because of heavy armor, not usefullness.

Farin · Jan 24, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper008

Enough said right here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raxxman

simply cause warriors have no hex defense, and taking the helm

A: makes you more vunlerable to attacks as its armour is 40 points lowerer than say the glads helm vs physical when being clobbered in the head.

B: makes you sacrifice a +1 to stat reducing your dammage output/stance duration, etc etc.

C: It makes skills like parasitic bond and warstrels worry twice as effective

A- Uhmm Yeah.. I would take the ability to halve the duration of a COMPLETE skill line in exchange of 20 mere armor which can easily be fixed.

Edit- About warriors being the last targets. That's quite an old way of thinking, warriors are now just as easy targets as mesmers are. There's no such thing as last targeted player anymore.
B- Just like the previous statement. 1 Second/Some damage in exchange of Effective reduction of a lot of skills. A lot.

C- Is that serious? Oh yeah parasitic bond and Wastrels are much more effective. You're forgetting all the other hexes, those aren't effective.